Unit Balance and statistics Discussion

[HEVcrab]

just played dev build , seems that 1p is fine , instead of 2p

At last we achieved a compromise on this truly Shakespearian question: "2p or not 2p?" )))

[Yurtex]

and how exactly it will leave them useless? it will cost power , not additional REQ , just power which is gathered by combines without much effert , since they must build power generators and power getting gathered as it is , it is measure to prevent spam of manhack , even in small numbers those things are dangerous and can kill several rebels easily , not to mention that they are insta created

To make a manhack spam you need more then 1 metrocop,
So to the time your enemy build 2 metrocops, you'll get a barracks up and ready.

there is measure againist them? like what?

Combine soldiers/rebels?

why am i suggesting this? i want this game to be balanced , i dont see any profit or anything of this project or make this game for myself to be comfortable to play with my own faction , i dont care about those things. I do care about actual balance and i have ability to play with strong player to see if its my fault or game balance. Losing doesn't mean that game is unbalanced , but if there is such thing , it must be considered

As I do, but how manhacks is unbalanced id don't see, they was till that strange bug was fixed.

Any way as change has been added, its time to test!

[Yurtex]

Well 1r 1p for manhacks doesn't influence any how.

[Nqss[RUS]]

Well 1r 1p for manhacks doesn't influence any how.

it does , it holds you from making a huge swarm of those , you only creates enough manhacks to support yourself
unless you build more power generators and loose REQ at thise point

[HEVcrab]

I played a match with Yurtex, the turret and mine spam spoils the game.
I think each metrocop should carry 1 floor turret and 1 set of 3 mines (the same for rebel engineer and the mines), having to resupply at the armory (munition depot).
To avoid spamming turrets at the base, cooldown of 35 or even 60 seconds should still be present for mines and turrets.

Another idea: sending engineers for scrap is really risky, so maybe they should carry more than just 1s a time?
Say, about 4s...

[Yurtex]

I played a match with Yurtex, the turret and mine spam spoils the game.
I think each metrocop should carry 1 floor turret and 1 set of 3 mines (the same for rebel engineer and the mines), having to resupply at the armory (munition depot).
To avoid spamming turrets at the base, cooldown of 35 or even 60 seconds should still be present for mines and turrets.

Another idea: sending engineers for scrap is really risky, so maybe they should carry more than just 1s a time?
Say, about 4s...

There no unit that can do demining for now, so such mine field is hard to avoid, especially if it keeps growing )

[HEVcrab]

Some more observations:

1) Grenades are OP, their blast radius (now 350, as I remember) should be reduced to 280.

2) Shotgun is not a very interesting weapon for rebels. I think it should cost 1s to equip, since it's weaker than AR2 against soldiers and synths.

3) To have any influence on gameplay, SMG upgrade for metrocops should require Garrison (that already issues soldiers with SMGs), thus coming into the game earlier than Armory (where advanced weapons are produced).

[Nqss[RUS]]

actually i discovered that armory is better choice then garrison , since , well , it will take much more time before you get SMG metrocops
Or you have to take the manhack away with smg upgrade

[HEVcrab]

actually i discovered that armory is better choice then garrison , since , well , it will take much more time before you get SMG metrocops
Or you have to take the manhack away with smg upgrade

With armory construction, it's essential to unlock mines/turrets/grenades and save power (not deploying manhacks or SMGing metrocops) to recruit AR2 soldiers.
Metrocops are needed further to set up mines&turrets only, not to fight.
When you build an armory, both SMG upgrade and manhacks really do nothing, because by this time rebels have massive numbers of Medium armored units (metrocops are light, they lose to SMG 3r rebels, and manhacks are efficient against light units only).

In addition, the weak side of metrocops is that they cannot use cover points (I think this should persist). It even may have some explanation that they're used to being feared by the civilians and have no habit to take cover. What did they usually do in City 17? They walked around, grabbing and beating up random civilians etc.

[HEVcrab]

After some test matches, I think the following balance tweaks should be done:

1) Increase basic rebel recruitment time to 30 seconds;

2) Change the metrocop SMG upgrade cost to 1r (it isn't as strong a powerup as a manhack).

3) Buildings (including turrets) should take 25% damage from bullet and 50% damage from pulse, not to be so vulnerable.

[Yurtex]

After some test matches, I think the following balance tweaks should be done:

3) Buildings (including turrets) should take 25% damage from bullet and 50% damage from pulse, not to be so vulnerable.

Make sense, will add reason to build more powerful units like RPGs and Striders.

[HEVcrab]

Make sense, will add reason to build more powerful units like RPGs and Striders.

I forgot to mention:

4) (maybe) a 50% de-buff of Vortigaunt shock against synths and buildings, because now Vorts are better counter-synths and demolishers than even RPG guys.

5) The shotgun upgrade should cost 1r 1s for rebels, to make shotgun more interesting (currently there's not much sense to get shotguns instead of AR2s).
BTW, Sandern, you said that shotgun fires 7 pellets...well, how can 32 total damage be divided by 7, if damage is integer? Amount of 8 pellets per shot is more logical, the probability of more pellets hitting will be greater, and also more bonus against light (+2 for 8th pellet) will be given.

[Sandern]

Make sense, will add reason to build more powerful units like RPGs and Striders.

5) The shotgun upgrade should cost 1r 1s for rebels, to make shotgun more interesting (currently there's not much sense to get shotguns instead of AR2s).
BTW, Sandern, you said that shotgun fires 7 pellets...well, how can 32 total damage be divided by 7, if damage is integer? Amount of 8 pellets per shot is more logical, the probability of more pellets hitting will be greater, and also more bonus against light (+2 for 8th pellet) will be given.

Damage is a float. So indeed, each shot does a damage of 4.57142857143

[Yurtex]

Make sense, will add reason to build more powerful units like RPGs and Striders.

5) The shotgun upgrade should cost 1r 1s for rebels, to make shotgun more interesting (currently there's not much sense to get shotguns instead of AR2s).
BTW, Sandern, you said that shotgun fires 7 pellets...well, how can 32 total damage be divided by 7, if damage is integer? Amount of 8 pellets per shot is more logical, the probability of more pellets hitting will be greater, and also more bonus against light (+2 for 8th pellet) will be given.

Damage is a float. So indeed, each shot does a damage of 4.57142857143

LoL. Any way shotgun is useless now, maybe increase damage in close (yes I know that not how real shot guns work, but in HL2 it does this way), so it will add some variety and choice of what style do you play.

[Masked Death]

Sorry if this is necropost, but I am pretty sure that the official threads were to be always active. So the problem there is, the strider is too powerful. It requires 4 or 5 RPG shots (can't remember) to get killed, but packs a huge punch with the main cannon. Now: The strider produces for 90 seconds, and RPG guys for 60 or 90. And remember, before they reload the strider WILL get them dead. Not to mention that striders are 'dozers if we're speaking about buildings. Two strider main shots almost destroy the Citadel. And the energy cost is just funny. If you're that late into the game to have striders, you probaly have enough res for a farm. So basically: Until rebels get an instant destruction device (like DØG), strider makes Combine superior.

Also, manhacks. 1 hack - instant build, 1 engineer - 30 seconds building. A manhack kills an engineer or few without any problems. This is annoying, since before you manage to get one rebel unit, the manhack will kill your engineer.